imo none of that stuff mattered. cintron fell down and couldn't continue. he loses by tko. it's no different than breaking your leg during a fight. you have to continue or you lose.
the whole "go to the cards" rule is for accidental fouls. did i miss the foul?
pretty soon we'll have rulings that a fighter was too TIRED to continue, so we go to the scorecards.
tont, i though williams was way TOO gracious. he had to stop the guy to get a split decision.
I always thought the count was for a guy knocked out of the Ring (I recall Benn having to beat a count early in the McClellan fight, and barely making it) but your right that if the injury occurs inside the Ring, it's a loss (a couple that come to mind are Jameel McCline-Michael Grant and Uriah Grant-Thomas Hearns). A tumble out of the Ring is apparently being considered like a unintentional headbutt, and you go to the Cards.
Does it mean physically punched out of the ring though? This episode wasn't caused by a punch, but by tangling and falling bodies. Its like a slip isn't ruled a knockdown, so why does a fall from the ring (that wasn't caused by a punch) get a 20 count?
that's true...how many seconds do you have to get up from a slip? i would think that if a fighter slips and can't get up right away, the ref would wave off the fight. or would he call the doctor and then possibly allow the fight to continue?
i guess we have to wait until the next kermit cintron fight to have those questions answered. in his next fight, i predict he will be knocked out of the ropes, counted out, spend two minutes bitching to the ref that the ropes were loose, talk the ref into letting the fight continue, proceed to lose most of the rounds, get knocked out again, convince the doctor that his opponent stepped on his toe and broke it, and then win by decision (in accordance with the california state athletic commission's broken-toe-after-9-rounds-are-complete rule).
Post by davemurphy on May 24, 2010 10:52:58 GMT -5
Ton- I think that's still pretty universal, I know it's part of the ABC unified Rules (see below, or at www.abcboxing.com/unified_boxing_rules.html ). I am VERY disappointed in that, since I THOUGHT the one thing the ABC did provide was some uniformity in State to State Rules. California is a ABC MEMBER, but they're apparently able to use their own set of Rules, as Section B, Rule 1 clearly states four rounds must be completed, but California only requires three. I thought we AT LEAST had this worked out. I thought all ABC Members had to adhere to these Rules in non-Title fights (which this was). Jeez!!! What's the point of the ABC? Anyway, here's how THEIR rule reads on the issue in question:
9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.
Again this aint so clear though, Dave as it specifies the term "knocked out of the ring". I read that if the boxer has to have been punched, and then goes out of the ring from the resulting fall.
The Cintron incident I think is more covered in the Accidental fouls section.
1. If an accidental foul causes an injury severe enough for the referee to stop the bout immediately, the bout will result in a NO DECISION if stopped before four (4) completed rounds. Four (4) rounds are complete when the bell rings signifying the end of the fourth round.
What is really annoying is the fact the referee spoke to each just as Cintron was being put on the stretcher and he was saying 4 rounds wern't completed so it was a no contest. THEN after a word with a few officials they decide to play by other rules which state the 3 rounds completed stipulation, yet they read out scorecards for 4 completed rounds? Even more ridiculous that one judge gave Cintron the round in which he was sprawled out on the arena floor.
I think its one huge farce, and the fact that the decision is being overlooked because people think Cintron tok a dive is wrong. No one seems to care anymore that they changed the rules to award Williams the fight, but they wanna squabble about Cintrons "leap".
Post by davemurphy on May 25, 2010 13:33:09 GMT -5
I recall a 20 count in Benn-McClellan (it was very controversial as to whether Benn actualy beat the count) and also I believe there was a 20 count for Shannon Briggs-Sergei Lyachovich when Sergei got a 20 count. I think the Ref makes the ruling on whether he is knocked out of the Ring with a blow (which means a 20) and if it's from a blow or I guess you could actually just WALK out of the Ring if you wanted to, or dive out even, and you'd get that 20.
When it was ruled to be accidental, then it becomes subject to the Five Minute Injury Time Clock. Cintron could've got back in at 4:59, but the debate is whether the Doctor kept him down or Cintron chose to remain there.