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Post by dallen on Aug 9, 2010 17:27:50 GMT -5
Before he died Solly Cantor was a regular at the ex boxing meetings held around the UK.Solly was inducted into the Canadian Boxing Hall of Fame some years ago,but fought and resided in London.Solly told me he had heard that his friend the Canadian Heavyweight Don Mogard was living in the UK,and he was trying to trace him.Well Solly did find his friend only living a couple of miles from Sollys home,and invited Don to a ex boxers meeting which i attended.
I dont no if forum members no but Don Mogard was the first boxer to take Rocky Marciano the distance.Which very few ever did with the Rock,i asked Don how he did it he said i run and Rocky was not fast enough to catch me thank god.
Sadly both Don and Solly are now swapping blows in the big ring in the sky,but it was my pleasure to no both of them.Both of them were so modest talking about there ring careers,and never had a bad word for anybody.
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Post by Daxx on Aug 9, 2010 18:13:32 GMT -5
Great stuff...Always good to meet the real old timers...they have tyhe best stgories and all are usually gentlemen...I mean how opften does the opp come to meet a guy who stepped in with Marciano let alone go the distance with him....Great story thanks for sharing
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Post by billyc on Aug 9, 2010 19:23:05 GMT -5
We NEED to keep these stories alive. If not, the futue will actually think shit like 0's in a record define a good or even great fighter!
Thanks Dave....I don't care what people say about you, I think you are OK!!!!
LOL
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Post by Daxx on Aug 9, 2010 20:24:43 GMT -5
Just the memories of the old days period...Like stated the mis-conception of the 0 defining a record and exactly how good a fighter was....
EG I know this is a modern guy but 30 years from now people need to see a guy like Emmanual Augustas and not get the wrong idea by his 32-33 record...I mean the guy could fight and WAS a damn good fighter who was dangerous for any champion...To this day PBF states Augustas was his toughest fight though he won by 9th rd TKO...........Or Even Glen Johnson...They need top uinderstand those what is it 14 losses we not losses where this guy just got his ass kicked these were fights this guys gave all that was available then some....Verno Phillips is another modern era guy...
BUT what about the guys from the 50's who had 15-20 losses on the record yet what is forgotten is the fact some of these guys fought up to 3 times a week...Back when boxing meant if the family ate that week!!!
Its the history of the sport tht goes away with the passing of each of the guys like Don Mogard and Sally Canntor...History we can not get back
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 9, 2010 22:10:40 GMT -5
Imagine someone with Don Mogard's speed that was firing Larry Holmes stiff Jab at the SAME TIME that Rocky was trying to track him down? (Sorry, BC, I couldn't resist).
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 9, 2010 22:17:57 GMT -5
We NEED to keep these stories alive. If not, the futue will actually think shit like 0's in a record define a good or even great fighter! Thanks Dave....I don't care what people say about you, I think you are OK!!!! LOL BC- I think those comments are probably directed at me and not David Allen  You know, I'm thinikng about what DA mentions and thinking to the times at HOF and other occasions when we've seen former rivals embracing each other (Alexis Arguello and Aaron Pryor come immediately to mind above the rest, but there are MANY) and then I try to think ahead 25 years and wonder just what the hell we're going to have that would resemble that in the future, and can't come up with anything. The "Cherrypicking" not only effects today, but also has it's repercussions on History  |
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Post by billyc on Aug 10, 2010 4:12:16 GMT -5
The sad truth is that because guys like Fayweather puts his focus on the 0 and the networks and promoters follow it....the future fan will NOT realize how good some of the fighters with double-digit losses were...I wouldn't even be shocked if a great fighter like Glen Johnson gets lost in the shuffle 30 years from now. Its sad how people can even respect a so called fighter like Fayweather for mataining his 0 by fighting weak opps. The good news is that boxing IS alive and well and it WILL be around forever, so as all things do, it will evolve....either good or bad!
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 10, 2010 14:03:20 GMT -5
The sad truth is that because guys like Fayweather puts his focus on the 0 and the networks and promoters follow it....the future fan will NOT realize how good some of the fighters with double-digit losses were...I wouldn't even be shocked if a great fighter like Glen Johnson gets lost in the shuffle 30 years from now. Its sad how people can even respect a so called fighter like Fayweather for mataining his 0 by fighting weak opps. The good news is that boxing IS alive and well and it WILL be around forever, so as all things do, it will evolve....either good or bad! Glen Johnson is probably the last of a dying bread, I'm afraid. I seriously doubt we'll see another World Champion with a dozen losses in my lifetime, at least not one that we'll see on TV . It's sad because one of boxings best stories are the Cinderella Ones when the guy who toils for so long, finally triumphs. |
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Post by Daxx on Aug 10, 2010 15:29:56 GMT -5
I think Kellermen said it best Saturday (Man I can't believe I am quoting ANYTHING Maxs says) there was Glen Johnson then GLEN JOHNSON...He was always a rewspectable fighter with big heart then he became the fighter people did not want to fight because even though they could out point him it was going to be a hard earned victory...Then there was the Glen Johnson of now from the Jones KO where he is a master at what he does...a vet who can handle ANY situation and as Glen puts it best a fighter that goes to "Work" and doersn't slack off....Forget the fact we won't see many future champions with 10 or so losses like Johnson we won't see many fightersw like him in the future period....He is the last of that kind...Fighters like Micky Ward, Verno Phillips etc that are not P4P but they can beat anyone at any given time
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 11, 2010 4:27:45 GMT -5
I think Kellermen said it best Saturday (Man I can't believe I am quoting ANYTHING Maxs says) there was Glen Johnson then GLEN JOHNSON...He was always a rewspectable fighter with big heart then he became the fighter people did not want to fight because even though they could out point him it was going to be a hard earned victory...Then there was the Glen Johnson of now from the Jones KO where he is a master at what he does...a vet who can handle ANY situation and as Glen puts it best a fighter that goes to "Work" and doersn't slack off....Forget the fact we won't see many future champions with 10 or so losses like Johnson we won't see many fightersw like him in the future period....He is the last of that kind...Fighters like Micky Ward, Verno Phillips etc that are not P4P but they can beat anyone at any given time Exactly, the incentive to continue on after dropping the six or seven fights that just about eliminate you from serious discussions, and the lack of opportunities to earn your way back into the picture make this a dying breed that will be surely missed  |
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Post by Daxx on Aug 11, 2010 19:42:31 GMT -5
I think Kellermen said it best Saturday (Man I can't believe I am quoting ANYTHING Maxs says) there was Glen Johnson then GLEN JOHNSON...He was always a rewspectable fighter with big heart then he became the fighter people did not want to fight because even though they could out point him it was going to be a hard earned victory...Then there was the Glen Johnson of now from the Jones KO where he is a master at what he does...a vet who can handle ANY situation and as Glen puts it best a fighter that goes to "Work" and doersn't slack off....Forget the fact we won't see many future champions with 10 or so losses like Johnson we won't see many fightersw like him in the future period....He is the last of that kind...Fighters like Micky Ward, Verno Phillips etc that are not P4P but they can beat anyone at any given time Exactly, the incentive to continue on after dropping the six or seven fights that just about eliminate you from serious discussions, and the lack of opportunities to earn your way back into the picture make this a dying breed that will be surely missed Even guys willing to go on the road and fight anyone at any cost is fading out....EG Froch in the SS stating that if the AA fight was not in England he wont fight and drop out of the torney? It was like pulling teeth I heard to get him to agree to Monaco but they amanged to pursuade him it was as unbiased as one could ask for...I mean fighters at that level with all that to gain just stating they wont even fight in fear of a possible loss on the record certainly tells us that guys like GJ, MW etc are just about faded out......Shame really because I would trade the performsances of half the champions today for that of the performances of those guys even in loss....Grit heart and willingness to go to the edge for a victory |
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 12, 2010 14:10:39 GMT -5
Absolutely, Daxx. Among the elite, a loss is a loss is a loss. We the Fans deserve a lot of the blame because we sit back while guys who suffer a loss or two are chucked by the wayside and knocked to the lower part of the Food Chain by the TV Networks, Media, etc. But then the fighters themselves often lack the resolve to stick with it.
Working your way back from a tough loss is PART of the game, or it used to be, the answer isn't DON'T TAKE ANY CHANCES. That's why we see these undefeated wonders that are 20-0 and haven't faced ANY adversity until they suddenly end up in over their heads, and when they dissapoint then somebody simply shouts "Next" and we get another unproven youngster on the assembly line to take his place, and if they can crack through and win a few high profile fights, then the worst part of it is that the pinnacle that they're shooting for is to be a guy who's kept his "0" for so long that he's not expected to risk it.
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Post by Daxx on Aug 12, 2010 14:36:30 GMT -5
Absolutely, Daxx. Among the elite, a loss is a loss is a loss. We the Fans deserve a lot of the blame because we sit back while guys who suffer a loss or two are chucked by the wayside and knocked to the lower part of the Food Chain by the TV Networks, Media, etc. But then the fighters themselves often lack the resolve to stick with it. Working your way back from a tough loss is PART of the game, or it used to be, the answer isn't DON'T TAKE ANY CHANCES. That's why we see these undefeated wonders that are 20-0 and haven't faced ANY adversity until they suddenly end up in over their heads, and when they dissapoint then somebody simply shouts "Next" and we get another unproven youngster on the assembly line to take his place, and if they can crack through and win a few high profile fights, then the worst part of it is that the pinnacle that they're shooting for is to be a guy who's kept his "0" for so long that he's not expected to risk it. A prime example of the padded "0" and refusing to keep going once it is gone was a fighter named Thomas Damgaard...He was 37 or 38 and 0 when he faced Arturo Gatti with a 70%+ KO ratio Gatti pummled him the guy fought 1 more time some nobody with a record of 4-12 or some nonsense like that then called it a day....It just gives example of the type of heart these guys today are having...I mean how can you become a GREAT fighter if you refuse to deal with adversity? Name a great who does not have a loss that actually fought the best there was to fight? Armstrong, Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Hearns, Holmes, Tyson, Hopkins, Jones...Even Billy's favorite Lennox Lewis suffered losses.....Yet all these men either fought on or avenged their losses...THATS WHAT MAKES GREAT FIGHTERS!!!!!... Who the hell wants a sport full of guys with undefeated records?....How are we supposed to know who is actyally good or not unless we see every fighters fights...It is mjust plain stupid...It is the reason so many people are looking in the direction of MMA |
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 13, 2010 12:59:40 GMT -5
Daxx- The great Billy Conn used to say "if your fighting for a World Title and you don't have a loss, then somethings wrong". I don't agree with that, but I do agree with the nature of the statement, especially as it seems to apply to some of todays manufactored records. I think it's the responsiblity of us fans to be wise enough to look behind the numbers and question them, we've gotten lazy and have been getting easily fooled. For example, Daniel Estrada being #2 and fighting for the WBC Sliver Belt with this 25-0 full of questionable opposition boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=257299&cat=boxer but people see "title fight" and a undefeated record and don't bother questioning it. |
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Post by tontb on Aug 17, 2010 21:08:55 GMT -5
A prime example of the padded "0" and refusing to keep going once it is gone was a fighter named Thomas Damgaard...He was 37 or 38 and 0 when he faced Arturo Gatti with a 70%+ KO ratio Gatti pummled him the guy fought 1 more time some nobody with a record of 4-12 or some nonsense like that then called it a day Prince Nazeem did this too! Shame! |
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