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Post by davemurphy on Aug 14, 2010 23:19:11 GMT -5
Kudos to Billy C. and the others that picked the Pascal upset. I REALLY thought that the pressure from Pascal would bring out the "fight" out of Chad Dawson, and while I think we DID see a bit of that, I'm at a loss to understand why he didn't seem to take advantage at the points where it seemed obvious he had the upperharnd. I was also disappointed with his post fight comments, the Sour Grapes didn't fit him well.
Congratulations to Jean Pascal, a big win and I look forward to seeing more of him in the Future. For Dawson? Put aside the Rematch Idea and get yourself together.
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Post by Daxx on Aug 14, 2010 23:25:52 GMT -5
Kudos to Billy C. and the others that picked the Pascal upset. I REALLY thought that the pressure from Pascal would bring out the "fight" out of Chad Dawson, and while I think we DID see a bit of that, I'm at a loss to understand why he didn't seem to take advantage at the points where it seemed obvious he had the upperharnd. I was also disappointed with his post fight comments, the Sour Grapes didn't fit him well. Congratulations to Jean Pascal, a big win and I look forward to seeing more of him in the Future. For Dawson? Put aside the Rematch Idea and get yourself together. I believe it was MY thread that began the Pascal craze here thank you ;D...Just kidding I did though just have a feeling that Pascal was going to take it...Like was mentioned before Dawson in his last fight seemed happy to just do enough and win.... I certainly NEVER thought Dawson would perform this badly!!!! I mean he had more then one chance to finish off Pascal and he let him go!!!!!....I don;t know man
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duane
Junior Member
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Post by duane on Aug 15, 2010 10:22:42 GMT -5
Let me start with this.... Jean Pascal is a good fighter who fought a great fight.
Now let me get to that dam CHAD! I never seen a guy give away a fight that bad in a long time. Did he take a dive? I can't understand how a guy could hurt or daze a fighter, and then just back off for no reason.
CHAD DAWSON HAS NO KILLER INSTINCT WHAT SO EVER! Now I see why he has no fan base.
Anyway, I'm done venting bout Chad... For now. Moving on.
I couln't beleive they stopped that fight, when there was only 1 and a half rounds left in the fight! In a championship fight, they didn't even let him finish out the round, and check his eye agin between rounds! Their guy (Pascal) was hurt, he was ahead on points, and the oppertunity popped up to stop the fight so they took it. Why risk it? This reminds me of when Bute got that 20 second 10 count. Man, you better watch yourself in Canada if you fight a hometown guy! Just shaddy!
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duane
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by duane on Aug 15, 2010 10:40:08 GMT -5
Man, Glen johnson fights harder than Chad, and he's YEARS past his prime!
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Post by billyc on Aug 15, 2010 11:19:54 GMT -5
Listen....I picked Pascal but not because I didn't think Dawson wasn't the better fighter! I think it was a clear case of not fighting the best. In order to be the best, you need to fight the best. Its the same in EVERY sport....the better teams are in the tougher divisions because they face each other more. Dawson has not fough a fighter under 40 in almost FOUR YEARS. Of course he out-shinned them! Pascal was hungry, was young AND was home. I think Dawson will be back and I may even lean towards him in the rematch, but the thing that REALLY bothers me is that he and his walrus promoter shaw sounded like punks after the fight. There is NO way the head butt was done on purpose. AND HBO sounded like complete fools by saying that Dawson was on his way to KOing Pascal because of one punch that APPEARED to stun him....remember one thing...not once did his eyes look glazed. All in all, a good win for Pascal. For all....remember the most important thing here....to BE THE BEST, you need to FIGHT the best. A 0 means ZIP if you don't have it against the best. Remember, to be the best YOU NEED TO FIGHT THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 15, 2010 11:22:38 GMT -5
Yeah, both of you guys sum it up pretty well. In retrospect, and hindsight is always 20-20 and certainly better than my readings on this one, Chad Dawson didn't have the minimum killer instinct neccesary in a fight he had to know he was losing (you would think), and what was even worse, he seemed to be almost be thinking "Okay, I've done enough to win this Round, take a break". It was like the "maintaing the Zero" that Billy C. talks about, only instead of the opponent choice being the main thing, with Chad it was scoring the fight in his head. It seemed like he'd shoot for enough to win the Round (in his mind) and then he'd want to rest on what he'd done.
Pascal deserves the credit for answering back, but it sure doesn't take much to show Chad Dawson that your still in the fight and him to back off.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 15, 2010 11:29:09 GMT -5
Duane- I kind of disagree, that was a pretty bad cut. I'd like to think that the Doctor made the call without any thought to who was actually ahead at the time, and maybe I'm just being too niave in thinking so. I think for me it becomes a bit of a mute point in that even with Dawson seeming to win the partial round, the spread on the scorecards was such that the last 1.5 rds would not have turned the tables barring a KO.......and we'd seen that Chad would back off if that was ever a possiblity.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 15, 2010 11:30:39 GMT -5
Listen....I picked Pascal but not because I didn't think Dawson wasn't the better fighter! I think it was a clear case of not fighting the best. In order to be the best, you need to fight the best. Its the same in EVERY sport....the better teams are in the tougher divisions because they face each other more. Dawson has not fough a fighter under 40 in almost FOUR YEARS. Of course he out-shinned them! Pascal was hungry, was young AND was home. I think Dawson will be back and I may even lean towards him in the rematch, but the thing that REALLY bothers me is that he and his walrus promoter shaw sounded like punks after the fight. There is NO way the head butt was done on purpose. AND HBO sounded like complete fools by saying that Dawson was on his way to KOing Pascal because of one punch that APPEARED to stun him....remember one thing...not once did his eyes look glazed. All in all, a good win for Pascal. For all....remember the most important thing here....to BE THE BEST, you need to FIGHT the best. A 0 means ZIP if you don't have it against the best. Remember, to be the best YOU NEED TO FIGHT THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL, I was typing my reply when you posted this and mentioned the Zero effect, I swear I wasn't being an Echo.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 15, 2010 11:36:10 GMT -5
When I mentioned Chad's Sour Grapes in the Thread Starter, it was the HEADBUTTS that I was directly refering to. I saw only one meaningful headbutt the entire night, what a load of Crap. Good Job by Ref Griffen, look in the mirror if you want a reason to blame your loss on, Chad.
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Post by billyc on Aug 15, 2010 12:20:24 GMT -5
That was a bad cut man....those...the ones you can't stop, especially where it was....will ALWAYS get the doc to stop it.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 15, 2010 12:33:24 GMT -5
That was a bad cut man....those...the ones you can't stop, especially where it was....will ALWAYS get the doc to stop it. Billy C- I agree, it was leaking like crazy, blood running all the way down his Chest, and in an awful spot. Fans always want to see a fight go on, but those type of cuts are the ones where a few more blows, even though there was less than 5 mins time remaing, can open it up to the point where Chad Dawson could fight the rest of his career as an Israel Vazquez-like Gargoyle.
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Post by mh2365 on Aug 15, 2010 14:04:12 GMT -5
Yeah that cut was bad ... it should have been stopped ... at no point did I think it was unfair or they were stopping it because Dawson was coming back or any crap Shaw wants to throw out there.
I thought the ref was fair the whole fight. The judging was a little off (108-101) but that could have been the crowd response to the few flurries by Pascal.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 16, 2010 10:10:52 GMT -5
The shit about it happening at the point where he says he "had Pascal ready to go" is pretty funny, and an obvious case of self delusion. In the post fight press conference, he mentioned the "constant headbutts" and then later on he says something "he must have headbutted me five or six times during the fight and the Ref said nothing". I would give ANYTHING to be in the Great Upstairs and see the Laughter amonst the Greats who've passed on when he said that. The guys who dealt with heads in their chests all night long, the guys who fought (and often beat) the masters of using their head as a "third fist" and could get away with it. If he thinks THIS was a Rough Fight, it shows just shows how big a Pansy Ride it was to the Top. It sucks when Speeds not enough and you have to actually fight, I guess.
The reason I posted this Thread is NOT because Chad Dawson lost, but that I was totally wrong that the Difficulty of the Fight would Bring Out his Best and he'd rise to the ocassion. It brought out little short spurts and not a Champions Heart like I thought. Fighting a Dumb Fight I can deal with, but backing off and not seeming to want to fight at all when faced with adversity, not willing to take Risks and measuring off your performance? Good luck drawing viewers with THAT.
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Post by billyc on Aug 16, 2010 11:53:41 GMT -5
To be honest....and I know it was a bad cut and I said it myself that there was no way a doctor could let it contunue, I think when a fighter can't continue...its a TKO. I hate the head-butt rule(s). Murph....you are 100% right....the fighters of yester-year fought with MANY headbutts, elbows, laces, thumbs, knees (ok...maybe not a lot of knees, but you get the point!) and kept going. The truth is, per fighter, there are WAY more head butts today than there was years ago. Do you wanna know why? Because fighters KNEW how to fight and move and defend and NOT CLOSE THEIR FREAKING EYES when moving in (I saw a still shot of Dawson moving his head in and had his eyes closed! WTF is that?) The other thing is hearing them say, "well wait until he fights us in our town, with our judges......" What is THAT? Are we really expected to beleive that the ONLY reason Dawson lost is because it was in Pascal's home town? PLEASE. The reason why Dawson lost is because he has become soft. He has lost IT, what ever IT is....he did no listen to his corner...at ALL. "Chad...we NEED these two rounds. Do you understand Chad? We NEEEEEEDDDDDD these two rounds!" Do you know what, He NEEDED at least 7 rounds! Another "would of, could of, should of" fighter. To be honest....the only fighters out there that I respect are the ones fighting on a regular basis against REAL opponents. Four fights between two fighters, with an Average age of 40+ over the past THREE years doesn't cut it people.
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Post by davemurphy on Aug 16, 2010 16:00:01 GMT -5
Billy- Your right, most of the headbutts today happen because a fighter doesn't know how to even protect it. I recall Joey Giardello talking about Gene Fullmer and saying how he kept getting butted and Fullmer acting like it was an accident, and then Giardello butted him back and then Gene watched his head after that You take care of stuff like that yourself, or you knew how to skillfully avoid it and protect your own. If Dawson thought he had it rough with Pascal, I'd have loved to have seen his cut up face via Nino Benvenutti. Don't close your eyes and learn to bob and weave, you've supposedly got all this amatuer experience to draw on......which brings me to ANOTHER point on the Heads. Pre-1980, they fought without the headgear and look how few cuts there were. How many guys on our Olympic Team couldn't advance due to a cut in '76 and before that?, it very seldom happened. I do recall Sugar Ray Seales I think it was, winning a gold medal and standing on the platform with a bandage on his eye in '72, but usually they made it through five fights unscathed. What's my point? When the headgear came in with the AMs, they didn't HAVE to watch their Heads, and it's created a very bad carry over into the Pro Game. Okay, now for the Rematch Clause. Isn't it interesting that Chad Dawson knew the details about it, and it came out of his mouth first thing the other night. Hey, Chad, a Rematch Clause DOESN'T mean you've got Two Chances to win a single fight, it's not a do-over like on the Golf Course, Pal. If that's his mentality, that he's got a second shot at it, then is it any wonder he didn't push some of the advantages when they popped up and instead tried to measure off his performance? Like you say, Eddie Mustafa Muhammid was telling him he needed two rounds LONG after the point where winning them would've done any good. Hey, the Fighter himself should've figured that out long before then, and my problem is that he did..............and didn't seem overly concerned. I didn't see a Champion Saturday Night, I saw a guy worried about how he looked. Another guy trying to maintain his positon and not prove a point.
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