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Post by davemurphy on Apr 6, 2012 7:02:26 GMT -5
A Quarter-of-a-Century Ago today
"Five years ago, when Ray Leonard was as good as any fighter I ever saw, I thought he'd beat Hagler. Today I don't"--Larry Merchant.
That's what Larry's picked on this preview show that HBO aired for the fight that happened 25 years-ago today.
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Post by billyc on Apr 8, 2012 14:51:30 GMT -5
I STILL think it was a DRAW!
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Post by dallen on Apr 9, 2012 12:07:45 GMT -5
Leonard kicked his arse live with it BillyC,Compu box had Leonard winning easy now tell me there wrong aswell.
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 9, 2012 23:53:11 GMT -5
Leonard kicked his arse live with it BillyC,Compu box had Leonard winning easy now tell me there wrong aswell. LOL, don't get BC started on Compubox  Btw, did you see the article the other day where they took compubox figures and used it to show that Floyd Mayweather is the greatest fighter of all-time? He has the greatest differential between landing shots and not being hit, but all it did for me was to prove once again that there's a lot of people that don't know how to properly evaluate this tool, and that it's quantitative and not qualitative. Sorry Bob Canobio but Sugar Ray Robinson hit harder than Floyd Mayweather does, I don't care how much wider Floyd's percentage of hits to misses is. |
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Post by billyc on Apr 10, 2012 6:59:09 GMT -5
The problem is (and this is what they NEVER bring up) is that the data being recorded by the person logging out the info is SUBJECTIVE.
DA...PLEASE!
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Post by dallen on Apr 10, 2012 10:47:42 GMT -5
No different than us scoring the fight BillyC,we are subjective to what we see taking place in the ring.My quick fix for you BillyC is a visit to Spec Savers,perhaps then you will see what i see Leonard landing the more shots.
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Post by billyc on Apr 11, 2012 3:00:00 GMT -5
DA...I was talking about CompuBox....but as for the Hag-SRL fight that SRL was handed the gift in....he stole the rounds at the end. I agree that Hag did not fight a smart fight, nor did he throw as many punches as he should have, but in the end...that fight was a draw. There is no way you can tell me he beat Hag enough to take the titles that Hag had for over 8 years with a perfomance like that! SRL was and still is a media darling. I think if it was scored a draw, we would have seen a rematch. With all of that said...we all were in a room last year and watched the fight, with no sound, then scored it. I think I still had it the same way...BUT I know Alex...who is a HUGE Hag fan...ended up scoring it for SRL!
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 11, 2012 22:54:33 GMT -5
No different than us scoring the fight BillyC,we are subjective to what we see taking place in the ring.My quick fix for you BillyC is a visit to Spec Savers,perhaps then you will see what i see Leonard landing the more shots. They actually give the totals on the HBO Replay the week after the fight and the total punches landed is very close, DA. I wish I had my copy of the fight handy so that I could review it and post up the totals. Hagler ended up throwing like 160 more punches and SRL's connect pct was considerably higher, but the total punches landed I remember was only about 5 punches difference. |
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 11, 2012 22:58:03 GMT -5
DA...I was talking about CompuBox....but as for the Hag-SRL fight that SRL was handed the gift in....he stole the rounds at the end. I agree that Hag did not fight a smart fight, nor did he throw as many punches as he should have, but in the end...that fight was a draw. There is no way you can tell me he beat Hag enough to take the titles that Hag had for over 8 years with a perfomance like that! SRL was and still is a media darling. I think if it was scored a draw, we would have seen a rematch. With all of that said...we all were in a room last year and watched the fight, with no sound, then scored it. I think I still had it the same way...BUT I know Alex...who is a HUGE Hag fan...ended up scoring it for SRL! Billy- I think the real key to the fight was expectations. Having been off for 3.5 years following the Kevin Howard debacle, Leonard was able to overly impress simply by being able to compete, and people like Larry Merchant (who picks Hagler to win in the preview show that I posted in the opening post) were amazed by that, and it became the lead story of the fight. |
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Post by billyc on Apr 12, 2012 3:56:57 GMT -5
I agree Murph! That is the problem. I feel SRL DID enough to impress and get all the rec is could, but IMO he did not win decisive enough to take the title from the guy who held it and defended it for over 8 yrs. I thought is WAS a draw and that SRL would have gotten his credit and they BOTH would have gotten a rematch and another big payday!
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 17, 2012 21:25:44 GMT -5
I agree Murph! That is the problem. I feel SRL DID enough to impress and get all the rec is could, but IMO he did not win decisive enough to take the title from the guy who held it and defended it for over 8 yrs. I thought is WAS a draw and that SRL would have gotten his credit and they BOTH would have gotten a rematch and another big payday! BC- The interesting thing about the rematch is that that "public perception" would've flip-flopped and Hagler would've been the recipient of it. Most would have assumed he'd have been a year older and slower(Angelo Dundee being the genius that he was, would've stalled and made the rematch for as far off in the distance as he could) and Ray would be even sharper with having the one fight under his belt and no longer coming back cold. |
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Post by billyc on Apr 18, 2012 3:38:03 GMT -5
many "experts" thought Hagler would have KO'd SRL if they had met in a 2nd match. After all these years...I still feel the same way...Hagler beat Hagler! There was no reason for him to NOT come right after SRL like he did with Hearns...THAT was the fight he had to fight to beat SRL. There was no way to out-box SRL. Hagler weakest part of his game was himself.
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 18, 2012 20:22:37 GMT -5
many "experts" thought Hagler would have KO'd SRL if they had met in a 2nd match. After all these years...I still feel the same way...Hagler beat Hagler! There was no reason for him to NOT come right after SRL like he did with Hearns...THAT was the fight he had to fight to beat SRL. There was no way to out-box SRL. Hagler weakest part of his game was himself. BC- I would argue that he DID try, Hagler didn't just sit back and let SRL take those first three rounds, Marvin was simply swinging like a rusty gate and missing. I think Dundee made a brilliant move by setting the fight so far in advantage, meaning that Marvin was out for a year following Mugabi and helping negate his advantage over Ray's long layoff. As far as Marvin coming out orthodox, that's another story (btw, he also did that with Mugabi, and that helped The Beast, even though he didn't win) |
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Post by billyc on Apr 19, 2012 4:00:14 GMT -5
The beast was good...but no SRL
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Post by davemurphy on Apr 19, 2012 11:20:07 GMT -5
The beast was good...but no SRL Very true, and had Hagler not had such an overwhelming desire to fulfill his decade old dream of finally facing Leonard, I think struggling with Mugabi would've been enough to convince Marvin to walk away. In that sense, he kind of fooled himself into staying one fight too many. |
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Btw, did you see the article the other day where they took compubox figures and used it to show that Floyd Mayweather is the greatest fighter of all-time? He has the greatest differential between landing shots and not being hit, but all it did for me was to prove once again that there's a lot of people that don't know how to properly evaluate this tool, and that it's quantitative and not qualitative.