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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 8:29:09 GMT -5
Was his career ended short by bad management? I had spoken with him one time after we did an interview about his career in general and we got into detail how he feels as though his management killed his career...In the sense that they threw him in too early to the big fights against guys who were much to seasoned for him, even the ones he had one like his wins over Campas, Wright and Ike where he won and in the case of Yori boy when he won the title and dominated he felt he took more abuse then he should have and if he was brought along better and they waited to put him in with the "Big Dogs" as he said his career might of had more longevity.....I know he has said it publicly before as well but I was watching an old fight of his the other night against Raul Marquez (Plus his one against Winky) and for some reason I thought of the conversation......
I also know that ot bothers him greatly that he was not taught to be a more defensive fighter and it bothers him that he has developed the ex boxers drawl AKA Punch Drunk slur....and he blames the fact he was put into too many wars as well for it....
So do you guys think that Vargas could have been more then what he was and does anyone else think that Vargas career was killed by the fact in his 12th or 13th pro fight he was put in so high? I was a big fan of Vargas....I always tried to wonder what more he would have been if not put in so early...Anyone think his career was cut short due to those 2 reasons?
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Post by Davema on Sept 5, 2010 9:40:20 GMT -5
Vargas had talent, but his problem was his attitide and work ethic. He was/is a gansta..One of my most disliked fighters ever. His lack of respect and gansta rap was very irritating.
When DeLaHoya shut his trap up, it was a great day.
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 5, 2010 10:47:29 GMT -5
I thought at the time that the Duva's were moving an 18 year old kid along a bit fast, but that was the tendency with Main Events in the Eighties and Nineties. He DID face increasingly more difficult opponents as he climbed the ladder, I remember him taking on ex-Olympian Romallis Ellis and pretty good fighters in Anthony Stephens and Checkmate Macuinksi before taking on Yuri Boy Campas for a title. I think the problem was that there were TOO MANY tough fights TOO QUICK while AT THE TOP and not that he was brought along too quickly. If you look at his career between Campas and De La Hoya, about 3.5 years, he was fighting about every four months like clockwork, and pretty much all difficult fights.
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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 10:51:36 GMT -5
I thought at the time that the Duva's were moving an 18 year old kid along a bit fast, but that was the tendency with Main Events in the Eighties and Nineties. He DID face increasingly more difficult opponents as he climbed the ladder, I remember him taking on ex-Olympian Romallis Ellis and pretty good fighters in Anthony Stephens and Checkmate Macuinksi before taking on Yuri Boy Campas for a title. I think the problem was that there were TOO MANY tough fights TOO QUICK while AT THE TOP and not that he was brought along too quickly. If you look at his career between Campas and De La Hoya, about 3.5 years, he was fighting about every four months like clockwork, and pretty much all difficult fights. Out of curiosity how do you seperate the difference between too many tough opp too quickly and being brought a long too quickly....I pretty much put them in the same boat.... |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 10:53:18 GMT -5
Vargas had talent, but his problem was his attitide and work ethic. He was/is a gansta..One of my most disliked fighters ever. His lack of respect and gansta rap was very irritating. When DeLaHoya shut his trap up, it was a great day. That aside though on the terms of just talent and ability....The whole gangsta crap I agree was a bit just too much but then again he was just a kid so he was not being taught to act differently either....IMO it is part of your management teams job to also teach you how to act proper not just get you fights etc.. |
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 5, 2010 11:02:16 GMT -5
Oh asolutely, I was talking scrictly from a resume standpoint and so many tough fights in a short period of time, but I'm not at all diminishing the effect that his outside the Ring Activites/Legal Troubles played. He was burning the candle at both ends, and became what might've been the "Oldest" 29 year old fighter I ever remember, he looked like he was 40+ those last few fights.
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Post by Daxx on Sept 6, 2010 14:29:58 GMT -5
I thought the same thing his last couple of fights I mean he aged in boxing terms hard...Even look at him now and he looks older then what he is fat and bloated looking...again like you mentioned it could be his out of ring lifestyle though I thought he had calmed down a bit....
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 7, 2010 8:35:03 GMT -5
I thought the same thing his last couple of fights I mean he aged in boxing terms hard...Even look at him now and he looks older then what he is fat and bloated looking...again like you mentioned it could be his out of ring lifestyle though I thought he had calmed down a bit.... Yeah, I understand he's slowed down considerably as far as the partying and living the fast life, but of course it was too late. I know there was some talk around last Christmas about his maybe coming back, but thankfully he was talked out of it. He looked to be 200 pounds and I can only imagine how much further his Ring Skills had slid. |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 7, 2010 16:52:33 GMT -5
They were at a sad low in the Mayorga fight I could not even begin to imagine now....The comeback talk was due to money I believe....He had some shady business partners who scammed him supposedly.....He would have to comeback as a CW
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 7, 2010 21:05:36 GMT -5
They were at a sad low in the Mayorga fight I could not even begin to imagine now....The comeback talk was due to money I believe....He had some shady business partners who scammed him supposedly.....He would have to comeback as a CW Yeah, I know that through the majority of his career, Shelly Finkel did a hell of a job setting him up for life and he was in good shape money-wise, and then toward the end he got away from him and got with a business partner that cooked the books and he just woke up one morning and found out he was deep in debt. |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 8, 2010 9:00:10 GMT -5
Maybe him and Tua should form a company together call it "Fighters who allowed themselves to be screwed this era"........You would think after all the history of this happening to fighters today nthese guys would pay more attention to their own finances and while of course you mneed others to run it because that much money is a full time job in itself thewy would keep closer eyes on it for sure but hey not every fighter has a K2 Phd or is a Law student like Diaz
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 9, 2010 9:09:34 GMT -5
Maybe him and Tua should form a company together call it "Fighters who allowed themselves to be screwed this era"........You would think after all the history of this happening to fighters today nthese guys would pay more attention to their own finances and while of course you mneed others to run it because that much money is a full time job in itself thewy would keep closer eyes on it for sure but hey not every fighter has a K2 Phd or is a Law student like Diaz What's disappointing when I see a Vargas or Roy Jones is that both made good choices with their money in trusting Finkel (Vargas) and the Levins (Jones) for sound financial advice for the majority of their careers and then got greedy/trustworthy with the wrong people. If they'd have been fiscally stupid the entire time, it would be one thing, but this is worse. |
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frog
New Member
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Post by frog on Sept 16, 2010 5:22:40 GMT -5
vargas is my fav fighter of all time along with wayne mcullough, he def was put into the deep end too early, he looked shot against tito and he was only 23, im sure his his outside habits didnt help either though
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 16, 2010 11:06:34 GMT -5
vargas is my fav fighter of all time along with wayne mcullough, he def was put into the deep end too early, he looked shot against tito and he was only 23, im sure his his outside habits didnt help either though Welcome to the Forum, Frog. Yeah, it was like a candle being burned at both ends, too damn many tough opponents in a short period of time and then the outside the Ring difficulties burning it down at the other end. In just over a three year stretch he fought Raul Marquez, Winky Wright, Ike Quartey, Ross Thompson, Felix Trinidad, Wilfredo Rivera, Shibata Flores, and Oscar De La Hoya. I'm hard pressed to think of a guy who's ever fought 9 fights in that short a period of time. At least not in this day and age. |
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