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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 8:32:27 GMT -5
I was thinking about him after watching a Vargas fight then about Margarito/Williams and thier past claims of being "The most avoided fighters" I was thinking about Wright in his prime and in fact he was really a guy that no one wanted to fight...His defenmse was fantastic o0ne of the best in boxing over the past 25 years in my opinion......Does anyone else here4 think Winky was a P4P fighter who for years was not given his full credit?
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Post by Davema on Sept 5, 2010 9:42:21 GMT -5
Winky was a above average fighter..but to be real, i think the only reason he was avoided is becuase he brought no money to the table. He was boring to watch and an elite PPV fighter wouldnt make as much by fighting him.
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 5, 2010 10:36:49 GMT -5
I think he DID end up getting that credit after the two Mosley wins, but earlier in his career he pretty much made his reputation by beating guys that were, in my opinion, mostly ESPN level fighters, the 3 wins over Bronco McKart, beating people like Tony Marshall, Keith Mullings,Andrew Council, etc. I mean, they were GOOD fighters, some would say VERY GOOD, but in retrospect ones that he really should beat, they were kind of the Cream of the Crop among the "Best of the Rest" Group.
I have both of his losses to Harry Simon and Fernando Vargas and thought those were legit
defeats, even though close and controversial, and coupled with the earlier loss to Julio Cesar Vazquez, it kind of made me think of Winky as a guy who couldn't get over the hump.
I tend to agree with Davema in that it was actually two fold, being a tough opponent AND also not being able to make for Excitement/Big Payday working in conjunction with each other and NOT simply ducking him.
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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 10:48:51 GMT -5
I always find it interesting how people look back upon a fighter after they have retired...I mean in truth Winky Fairy could be looked at in both aspects one who never really managed to get over the hump and was more or less not matched up so highly because of the little money he drew...And the fact he was just a guy who at his best was just so hard to beat guys did not want the risk
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 5, 2010 10:57:09 GMT -5
I always find it interesting how people look back upon a fighter after they have retired...I mean in truth Winky Fairy could be looked at in both aspects one who never really managed to get over the hump and was more or less not matched up so highly because of the little money he drew...And the fact he was just a guy who at his best was just so hard to beat guys did not want the risk My two takes on Winky would be a guy who complained about no one wanting to fight him (with some good evidence) early in his career, but then scored a few major victories and got to a point where 99% of all Boxers only dream of being, and then became too concerned with the money offered and ended up pricing himself out of fights that he'd have died for just a few years before, and lost a lot of that goodwill that he'd built up among the fans earlier in his career. |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 5, 2010 14:50:32 GMT -5
Yeah the only other fighter who has talked themselvges out of more big paydays is Bernard Hopkins...He was MW champion for how many years before he had a million dollar payday?
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 7, 2010 9:13:15 GMT -5
Yeah the only other fighter who has talked themselvges out of more big paydays is Bernard Hopkins...He was MW champion for how many years before he had a million dollar payday? Yeah, but in fairness to BHOP on that one, he had a Grade A Lousy Manager in Butch Lewis, who NOBODY liked to deal with, and King controled the MW Division and he wasn't going to break through until he played ball, which he finally did when he signed with DKP in 2000 and got in the MW Tournament King ran. I remember Hopkins getting a pathetic 50K for one of those defenses on Fox Sports Sunday Night Fights against Antwon Echols. |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 7, 2010 16:50:22 GMT -5
Yeah the only other fighter who has talked themselvges out of more big paydays is Bernard Hopkins...He was MW champion for how many years before he had a million dollar payday? Yeah, but in fairness to BHOP on that one, he had a Grade A Lousy Manager in Butch Lewis, who NOBODY liked to deal with, and King controled the MW Division and he wasn't going to break through until he played ball, which he finally did when he signed with DKP in 2000 and got in the MW Tournament King ran. I remember Hopkins getting a pathetic 50K for one of those defenses on Fox Sports Sunday Night Fights against Antwon Echols. Yeah if I am not mistaken the announcers kept mentioning how much he was making throughout the bout....Lewis was a tool for sure...He mistook business and personal issues always wanting to prove a point....Had to love the shirtless tuxedo look though |
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 7, 2010 21:09:33 GMT -5
Yeah, but in fairness to BHOP on that one, he had a Grade A Lousy Manager in Butch Lewis, who NOBODY liked to deal with, and King controled the MW Division and he wasn't going to break through until he played ball, which he finally did when he signed with DKP in 2000 and got in the MW Tournament King ran. I remember Hopkins getting a pathetic 50K for one of those defenses on Fox Sports Sunday Night Fights against Antwon Echols. Yeah if I am not mistaken the announcers kept mentioning how much he was making throughout the bout....Lewis was a tool for sure...He mistook business and personal issues always wanting to prove a point....Had to love the shirtless tuxedo look though Yeah, but the thing about Butch Lewis is that it got to the point where nothing the fighter did really mattered, it became a "he's with Butch Lewis, so it's not worth the trouble". |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 8, 2010 8:56:52 GMT -5
Yes he did.....That is nwhy I was saying he took things personal and forgot about the business side...He went inot Butch Lewis mode and forgot he was promoting a fighter not himself.....
Don King promotes himself but the difference is King makes sure the money is there and will do anything to get to that point (Regardless of how it gets split in the end)....King made a point of making DKP the sort of company you knew what you were/are dealing with from the start........Butch got a little bit of sand in his underwear because negotiations took place near the beach and it all fell apart
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 8, 2010 14:02:34 GMT -5
I don't even know if Butch Lewis is still in the Business, is he? I know he owned a portion of BET Network, and made a fortune when it was sold to CBS/Viacom. I always used to listen to his antics, particularly when interviewed by Jim Gray, and wonder just how the hell Butch and Bob Arum ever worked together at Top Rank  |
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Post by Daxx on Sept 8, 2010 15:40:10 GMT -5
seeing those 2 together could be a hit hidden camera show in its own...Imagine the words said between them
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 10, 2010 9:59:07 GMT -5
seeing those 2 together could be a hit hidden camera show in its own...Imagine the words said between them It seems like an Odd Couple to think back to those days, but I think it was probably a case where Butch Lewis provided a Black Presence for those Black fighters Top Rank had at the time, and Butch probably wasn't as abrasive then as he became later on (during the Michael Spinks days and beyond). |
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