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Post by davemurphy on Sept 13, 2010 10:36:13 GMT -5
I'm been trying to think of something in Sports to compare how I feel about Klitschko when I see him fight. Dominance to the extent that it just simply boring, it doesn't come along very often, and BC is right to admonish us for blaming WLAD for excellence and what's the rest of the HW Divisions shortcomings in finding an answer to it.
I came up with my 72-10 Chicago Bulls, who won their 3rd NBA title in 4 years (only missing the one year when Jordan played Baseball, and even THEN they made the Semi-finals without him). Almost all those 72 wins were over before the 4th quarter even started, and almost all the 10 losses were meaningless games where Phil Jackson rested his Starters too long or the guys themselves were lethargic in their own dominance (a 90% winning pct for ANY Pro Sports Team is insane over a 82 game season).
The problem is not that Wlad is talented, but it's dominance to the extent that I can't even remember the last time he LOST A ROUND!!! He toys with opponents just like the Bulls did. There's such a thing as being too good for your own good, and let's face it, Wlad made better TV when he was exposing his Chin than when he's got it securely covered. Is that a FAULT? Hardly. If a NFL Defense made a change to cover a weakness, would you call THEM boring? I think not.
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Post by mh2365 on Sept 13, 2010 15:19:47 GMT -5
Nice comparison ... hopefully history remembers him well. Atlas is/was very smart keeping Povetkin far far away from him
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Post by mh2365 on Sept 13, 2010 15:20:06 GMT -5
oh and Haye is a bitch =)
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Post by dallen on Sept 13, 2010 15:23:28 GMT -5
MH is back lol
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Post by Daxx on Sept 13, 2010 20:12:11 GMT -5
I'm been trying to think of something in Sports to compare how I feel about Klitschko when I see him fight. Dominance to the extent that it just simply boring, it doesn't come along very often, and BC is right to admonish us for blaming WLAD for excellence and what's the rest of the HW Divisions shortcomings in finding an answer to it. I came up with my 72-10 Chicago Bulls, who won their 3rd NBA title in 4 years (only missing the one year when Jordan played Baseball, and even THEN they made the Semi-finals without him). Almost all those 72 wins were over before the 4th quarter even started, and almost all the 10 losses were meaningless games where Phil Jackson rested his Starters too long or the guys themselves were lethargic in their own dominance (a 90% winning pct for ANY Pro Sports Team is insane over a 82 game season). The problem is not that Wlad is talented, but it's dominance to the extent that I can't even remember the last time he LOST A ROUND!!! He toys with opponents just like the Bulls did. There's such a thing as being too good for your own good, and let's face it, Wlad made better TV when he was exposing his Chin than when he's got it securely covered. Is that a FAULT? Hardly. If a NFL Defense made a change to cover a weakness, would you call THEM boring? I think not. Interesting analogy.....No it is not Wlads fault that he is so good in such an era you can not choose when you come around in this sport.....With that said unlike many of the masses I believe several things about Wlad that many do not.. 1. He is not boaring, he can do what he wants in the ring he is that good,,,,He is not a take high risk fighter and he does not need to be...Why risk getting hit more often then need be..These are HW fighters I don't care how shitty they are one hit can do BIG damage that last far beyond the boxing career....I also think that he knows his limitations...A smart fighter knows his limits and works past then EG a boxer not overly sound or overly fast may throw more punches to allow volume to make up for short comings...Wlad fights smart he fights better since being with Manny who has taught him control and gotten rid of many of his former bad habits and only being ably to stand throw 3 punch combos wait for opp to return fire... 2. Wlad does not have the chin of fine China...Look back on his KO losses (Think that would be all of them)...He lost because when stunned he froze and panicked....He allowed his opp to unload on him more almost as if he was in shock he could be hurt...In the Brewster loss he was tired and panicked even more due to it... 3. Wlad would be a force in any era of HW boxing...Size, power alone are more then almost any other HW champ in history (Sorry I can count Valuev as a legit champion nor does he hit overly hard)...Add his boxing skills...His dominate jab and some of the greats could not even get in on him...Can you really imagine Marciano bulling in on Wlad with success?.....Could you picture Frazier coming in and getting away with those wild swing connecting at a high % when Wlad can keep him off with a jab and Joe would need to leap in with EVERY shot to connect...Take ones blocked and the % is low and Joe would tire in 4 when Wlad layed on him during clinches..... This is not to say I rank Wlad higher then these guys I am just saying in a physical gifted sense he is just so much bigger and he has skill for sure.... This guy is the real deal...Those who don't like him really have no reason not too....His KO% is high, his all around ability is top notch, he is a nice guy, he comes in shape prepared to fight, and there is always that bit of excitement because of the chin that makes you wonder in the later rounds if he will hold up after a big shot?..... Hey my man LL was looked at in the same light as Wlad but after he left everyone wanted his return because they knew who the HW kingpin was...When Wlad goes away it will be the same for certain...You forget what you have til it is gone I guess |
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 14, 2010 1:33:43 GMT -5
Daxx-
Point #2 about the Chin is the one that makes me laugh when people bring it up. They ridicule the way he fights to protect it, and also not just that he doesn't expose it but that like you point out, he's learned how to not panic and is able to hold on when he does take a shot.
What would these people have him do? You don't hear them ridicule an NFL Defense when they come up with a Shift to help cover up for a Rookie Cornerback. You go with your strenghts and work to cover up your weaknesses. They act like Wlad should expose his chin simply for their ammusement and to give inferior opponents a chance. How stupid is that?
I also agree with you about those who, lacking any real threat to them in todays field, will just conjure up names from the highlight reel of the past. That's a standard ploy, last ditch effort, to avoid giving any credit whatsoever. This thinking that the All Time Greats would have a Cake Walk with the Klitschkos is narrowminded. People need to quit spewing this nonsense like Joe Frazier would crush both K2's in the same night. I don't think they'd beat a lot of the ATG's, but give them they're due and at least give me a realistic assesment and not some nostalgic garbage like those guys were Super Heroes or something.
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Post by mh2365 on Sept 14, 2010 13:04:05 GMT -5
I've never bought into the weak chin argument ... He has only been on queer street once and that was against Sanders who punches like a mule kick .... the other stoppages were stamina issues ... his stamina is not great and he used to just bum rush guys when he got them hurt and it wore him down .... now he fights like he does and he has no stamina issues.
Funny how time will help him .... I mean Lewis was KTFO twice and we barely hear about his chin issues anymore.
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Post by davemurphy on Sept 15, 2010 7:26:29 GMT -5
I've never bought into the weak chin argument ... He has only been on queer street once and that was against Sanders who punches like a mule kick .... the other stoppages were stamina issues ... his stamina is not great and he used to just bum rush guys when he got them hurt and it wore him down .... now he fights like he does and he has no stamina issues. Funny how time will help him .... I mean Lewis was KTFO twice and we barely hear about his chin issues anymore. Mike- I think that's because Lennox has moved on. Even when he was on his great Career Finishing Run, he was still getting it mentioned. Critics didn't soften on the point because he kept from getting KO'd again, it's just that they don't have the need to chop him down anymore, they've moved on to other fighters to snipe at. I personally thought the Rahman shot was a complete fluke in a fight he was totally dominating up to that point and simply got careless, and Oliver McCall was a huge puncher and could take out anybody. I never thought the chin was that weak to begin with. |
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